אסטרה דיזל 2,000 שנת 2013 אוטומאט כרכב זמני בתקציב נמוך

[avargel]

הרכב שבכותרת

 

גיסי מחפש רכב למס' חודשים

 

נתקל באסטרה נראית שמורה ומטופלת, מונית לשעבר לתקופה קצרה

 

 

נקודות תורפה ידועות?

לברוח? או אפשר לתת צ'אנס?

[EliC25]

אם אתה מדבר על הרכב של גיסי שמפורסם פה בלוח, אז מדובר ברכב שעבד בקושי שנה כמונית (בעל הרכב חלה ונפטר)

הבן שלו חבר פורום, תחזק את הרכב עצמאית לפי הספר עד שנקנה לפני 3 שנים בידי גיסי

וגם אצלו המשיך,להיות מטופל בזמן.

בתקציב כזה אין מתחרים ראויים יותר מבחינת תמורה למחיר.

[PASHUT]

צר לי אבל היה לי את הרכב הנ’’ל ועשה הרבה צרות

בפרט אם מתכנן למכור אח’’כ שוק קשה

אני מניח שהרכב של אליק שמור בהרבה, אבל בכל זאת אשתף מזכרוני..

 

טורבו רגיש ועלול לשבוק בפתאומיות

חיישן לחץ סולר גורם לבעיות הנעה

נזילות מפקק בלוק מנוע ואינטרקולר, רגישות ידועה באופל

ומעל הכל גיר שעלול לנזול פתאום ולגרום לדפיקות, צינורות קולר גיר נשחקים מהר (היה לי גם באסטרה בנזין)

 

אם הוא צריך רכב זמני הייתי ממליץ על קורולה ישנה ושמורה, גם תשמור טוב על המחיר שלה.

*בקיצור הבעיה באסטרה היא שגם אם אתה נותן לה את הלב שלך ’’לפי הספר’’ היא ממש לא מחזירה אהבה (בשונה מגרמניות דיזל אחרות כגון סקודה ופולקסווגן שצריכות תחזוקה אבל אם משקיעים לא זורקים כסף לפח)

** גם פוקוס דור 2 עד 2010 אמינות וזולות, אם תמצא שמורה 

[EliC25]

קורולה בתקציב דומה תהיה משנתון 2007-2009 לדעתי (נוציא את הגיר הרובוטי)

[avargel]

לפני 10 שעות, EliC25 כתב:

אם אתה מדבר על הרכב של גיסי שמפורסם פה בלוח, אז מדובר ברכב שעבד בקושי שנה כמונית (בעל הרכב חלה ונפטר)

הבן שלו חבר פורום, תחזק את הרכב עצמאית לפי הספר עד שנקנה לפני 3 שנים בידי גיסי

וגם אצלו המשיך,להיות מטופל בזמן.

בתקציב כזה אין מתחרים ראויים יותר מבחינת תמורה למחיר.

 

אכן, הרכב של גיסך. אבל הוא לא מצא אותו דרך הפורום. אני חושב שהם גרים באותו ישוב.

 

אם תוכל להתייחס לדיזסטר המתואר בהודעה מתחתיך, אשמח.

[PASHUT]

לפני 3 שעות, EliC25 כתב:

קורולה בתקציב דומה תהיה משנתון 2007-2009 לדעתי (נוציא את הגיר הרובוטי)

נכון והבעלים שלה יהיה מאושר

ולא יבקר במוסכים

נהייתי כמעט מכונאי מרוב חלקים שהחלפתי..

 

שים לב שגם אין שוק לאוטו והוא הרי רוצה רכב שיוכל למוכרו אח’’כ

בקיצור חד משמעית להתרחק

*הוספה גם הטרמוסטט בעייתי מאוד. אצלי גרם להתחממות פתאומית

[EliC25]

לפני 7 שעות, avargel כתב:

 

אכן, הרכב של גיסך. אבל הוא לא מצא אותו דרך הפורום. אני חושב שהם גרים באותו ישוב.

 

אם תוכל להתייחס לדיזסטר המתואר בהודעה מתחתיך, אשמח.

לא מכיר את החוויה של @PASHUT, ולא נתקלתי בדבר דומה ברכב של גיסי. יכול להיות שזו תופעה רחבה ויכול להיות שלא. 

גם בקיה מג'נטיס היחסית אמינה שהיו לי, היו כאלו שחוווית הבעלות שלהם על הרכב הייתה שונה 180 מעלות.

התייעצתי עם gemini (בגרסת פרמיום) שיוציא דוח מפורט מהאינטרנט על תקלות ידועות בדגם הזה:

ספוילר

Technical Evaluation of the 2013 Opel Astra J 2.0 CDTI: Comprehensive Reliability, Engineering, and Operational Analysis

The 2013 Opel Astra J, specifically when configured with the 2.0-liter common-rail direct injection (CDTI) diesel powertrain, represents a pivotal era in European automotive engineering. This period marked the intersection of high-output diesel efficiency and the increasingly stringent Euro 5 emissions standards. The 2013 model year is of particular importance as it serves as the post-facelift iteration of the Astra J generation (produced from 2009 to 2015), incorporating various mechanical refinements and the introduction of the performance-oriented BiTurbo variant. This report provides a high-density technical analysis of the 2.0 CDTI’s reliability, drivetrain architecture, common failure modes, and long-term maintenance requirements, synthesized from extensive field data and manufacturer technical specifications.

Powertrain Architecture and Engine Variants

The core of the 2013 Astra J diesel lineup is the A20DTH engine, a 1,956 cc inline-four unit. This engine was designed for high-torque applications across the General Motors Europe (Opel/Vauxhall) platform, also seeing extensive use in the Insignia and Zafira models. The engine utilizes a cast-iron block for maximum thermal stability and a dual overhead camshaft (DOHC) aluminum cylinder head featuring four valves per cylinder.

Technical Specifications of the A20DTH and A20DTR

The 2.0 CDTI was offered in several output levels, with the 165 PS (121 kW) single-turbocharger variant and the 195 PS (143 kW) BiTurbo variant being the most prominent in 2013. The single-turbo version employs a variable geometry turbocharger (VGT) to optimize boost across a broad RPM range, while the BiTurbo uses a sequential two-stage turbocharging system to eliminate lag and maximize top-end power.

Engine Parameter	2.0 CDTI (165 PS)	2.0 CDTI BiTurbo (195 PS)
Displacement	$1,956\text{ cm}^3$	$1,956\text{ cm}^3$
Bore x Stroke	$83.0\text{ mm} \times 90.4\text{ mm}$	$83.0\text{ mm} \times 90.4\text{ mm}$
Compression Ratio	$16.5:1$	$16.5:1$
Peak Power	$163\text{ HP (165 PS) @ 4,000 RPM}$	$192\text{ HP (195 PS) @ 4,000 RPM}$
Peak Torque	$350\text{ Nm @ 1,750-2,500 RPM}$	$400\text{ Nm @ 1,750 RPM}$
Fuel System	Common Rail Direct Injection	Common Rail Direct Injection
Valvetrain	DOHC 16V	DOHC 16V
Turbocharger	Variable Geometry (VGT)	Sequential Twin-Turbo
Emission Standard	Euro 5	Euro 5

The A20DTH engine is characterized by a bore-to-stroke ratio of approximately $0.92:1$, an undersquare design that prioritizes torque production over high-RPM power, making it an ideal candidate for long-distance cruising and towing. Performance data indicates that the 165 PS version can achieve a top speed of 134 mph (215 km/h) with a 0-100 km/h acceleration time of 9.0 seconds, while the BiTurbo reduces this acceleration time to 8.4 seconds.

Critical Reliability Analysis: The Oil Lubrication System

The most documented and severe threat to the longevity of the 2.0 CDTI engine is the catastrophic failure of the oil pump pickup seal, often referred to within the industry as the "grenade" issue. This failure is not a result of poor engine block design but stems from the material degradation of a specific rubber gasket.

Mechanics of the Oil Pickup Seal Failure

The oil pickup seal serves as the interface between the oil pickup tube in the sump and the oil pump housing. In the A20DTH engine family, the OEM seal is typically composed of a nitrile or EPDM rubber compound. Under constant thermal cycling—where the engine repeatedly heats to operating temperatures (approx. $90^{\circ}\text{C}$) and cools to ambient—the rubber loses its elasticity, becoming brittle and shrinking.

When the seal shrinks or cracks, it allows the oil pump to suck in air from the crankcase along with the oil, particularly during high-suction events such as cold starts or high-RPM operation. This introduces air bubbles into the lubrication circuit, leading to cavitation and a loss of the hydrodynamic oil film required to protect the crankshaft main bearings and connecting rod bushings.

Diagnostic Progression and Warning Signs

The progression of this failure follows a distinct timeline. Early detection is critical, as once bearing damage has occurred, the engine's lifespan is significantly compromised regardless of seal replacement.

Phase	Duration/Symptom	Technical Implication
Early	Oil pressure light remains on for 2-5 seconds after cold start.	Delayed priming of the oil circuit due to air ingress.
Moderate	Flickering oil light at hot idle; increased top-end ticking.	Reduced flow at low RPM; hydraulic lifters losing pressure.
Advanced	"Low Oil Pressure" warning during driving; metallic knocking.	Substantial bearing wear; loss of oil film under load.
Terminal	Total engine seizure or catastrophic bottom-end failure.	Bearing welding to crankshaft; connecting rod fracture.

Field data suggests that this seal frequently fails between 80,000 km and 130,000 km, though it has been observed as early as 65,000 km in vehicles subjected to frequent short trips where the engine never reaches full operating temperature. Proactive replacement is highly recommended during the timing belt service, effectively resetting the reliability clock for this component.

Labor Complexity and Aftermarket Solutions

Replacing the oil pickup seal is a labor-intensive procedure. It requires the removal of the engine sump, which in the Astra J (particularly with the F40 manual gearbox) is complicated by the presence of hidden bolts obscured by the transmission bell housing. Some specialized repairers utilize a technique of drilling access holes into the bell housing to reach these bolts, reducing the total labor time by avoiding gearbox removal.

Aftermarket solutions have emerged to address the OEM seal's flaws. These include "Viton" seals with higher thermal resistance (rated up to $230^{\circ}\text{C}$) and custom-machined aluminum sleeves that create a permanent, non-degradable connection. These modifications are widely viewed as essential for owners intending to keep the vehicle beyond 150,000 km.

Transmission and Drivetrain Reliability

The 2013 Astra J 2.0 CDTI was primarily paired with either the F40 6-speed manual gearbox or the AF40-6 6-speed automatic transmission. The selection of the F40 gearbox is a significant reliability advantage over the 1.7 CDTI models, which utilized the lighter and more failure-prone M32 gearbox.

The F40 Manual Gearbox and Dual Mass Flywheel

The F40 transmission is a heavy-duty three-shaft unit rated for a maximum torque of 400 Nm (though it can reliably handle more in tuned applications). It is generally regarded as a robust unit, but it is paired with a Dual Mass Flywheel (DMF) that acts as a primary wear item. The DMF is designed to dampen the high-torque pulses inherent to a large diesel engine, protecting the transmission and improving cabin NVH (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness).

Component	Common Issues	Failure Symptoms
F40 Manual Box	3rd gear synchronizer wear; stiff shifting when cold.	Difficulty engaging gears; "crunching" during shifts.
Dual Mass Flywheel	Internal spring failure; grease leakage from center bearing.	Metallic rattling at idle; vibrations through pedals; shudder on takeoff.
Clutch Assembly	Pressure plate fatigue; slave cylinder leaks.	Slipping under high load; low or "mushy" pedal travel.

Field observations indicate that the DMF typically lasts between 100,000 km and 160,000 km, depending on driving style. Frequent urban stop-and-go driving or towing significantly accelerates the wear of the internal dampening springs. Ignoring a rattling DMF can lead to internal disintegration, which may cause damage to the gearbox input shaft or even the engine block in extreme cases.

Automatic Transmission AF40-6 Performance

The 6-speed automatic transmission is generally comfortable but requires a strict maintenance regimen to avoid common faults. Issues typically emerge between 80,000 km and 120,000 km. The "sealed for life" status assigned by manufacturers is often criticized by reliability analysts, who point to solenoid clogging and fluid degradation as the primary causes of jerky shifts, delayed engagement, and overheating.

A periodic automatic transmission fluid (ATF) change every 60,000 km using Dexron VI specification oil is the standard recommendation for ensuring the longevity of the planetary gearsets and hydraulic control units. Electronic errors within the Transmission Control Unit (TCU) can also occur, necessitating diagnostic scans for error codes if the vehicle enters a "limp mode" or exhibits unexpected gear hunting.

Emissions Control: DPF and EGR Systems

The 2013 Astra 2.0 CDTI complies with Euro 5 standards through the use of an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system and a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). The reliability of these systems is critically linked to the vehicle's "duty cycle"—the typical manner in which it is driven.

Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) Maintenance and Failure Modes

The DPF captures soot particles from the exhaust and burns them during an active regeneration cycle. This cycle requires high exhaust gas temperatures (EGTs), which are only achieved during sustained driving at speeds over 60 km/h for approximately 20 minutes.

If the vehicle is primarily driven on short urban trips (less than 10-15 km), the DPF will never reach the required temperature for a full regeneration. This leads to soot accumulation, increased backpressure, and eventual clogging. Common symptoms of DPF distress include:

1. Regeneration Frequency: If the vehicle attempts a regeneration cycle every 100-200 km, it indicates that the filter is becoming restricted or that the differential pressure sensors are failing.

2. Oil Dilution: During a failed or interrupted regeneration, excess diesel injected for the purpose of heating the exhaust can leak past the piston rings and into the oil sump. This raises the oil level and dilutes the lubricant, which directly correlates with accelerated wear of the aforementioned oil pickup seal.

3. Limp Mode: Excessive clogging (indicated by error codes P2002 or P2463) will trigger a "limp mode," restricting engine power to protect the turbocharger from excessive backpressure.

EGR Valve and Intake Manifold Integrity

The EGR valve recirculates exhaust gases into the intake manifold to reduce NOx emissions. In the 2.0 CDTI, carbon soot and oil vapors from the crankcase ventilation system often combine to form a "gunk" that clogs the EGR valve and the intake manifold swirl flaps. While the swirl flap issues were largely addressed in the Astra J compared to the older Astra H, the EGR valve itself remains a high-maintenance item.

Periodic cleaning of the EGR valve every 50,000 km is a recommended preventative measure to avoid rough idling, stalling, and decreased fuel efficiency. Additionally, the intake manifold in some A20DTH variants features a plastic construction that can develop coolant leaks at the gasket interface, leading to unexplained coolant loss and potential overheating if not monitored.

Turbocharger and Fuel Injection Systems

The Astra J 2.0 CDTI relies on precision engineering for its forced induction and fueling systems, which are generally reliable but sensitive to oil and fuel quality.

Variable Geometry Turbocharger (VGT) Reliability

The turbocharger units in the 2.0 CDTI 165 PS models are designed for durability, with most units reaching 200,000 km if the oil is changed regularly. However, the variable geometry vanes can become "stuck" due to carbon accumulation, a problem often seen in vehicles that are driven conservatively and never "pushed" to high RPMs.

Turbo Issue	Root Cause	Symptom
VGT Vane Seizure	Carbon/Soot buildup from low-load driving.	P0299 (Underboost) or P003A (Vane Position) codes.
Bearing Failure	Oil starvation or oil coking.	High-pitched "dentist drill" whine; blue smoke.
Boost Solenoid	Electrical/Mechanical failure of the control valve.	Sudden loss of power under load.

The BiTurbo variant (195 PS) uses a more complex sequential setup. While providing superior power delivery, it introduces additional failure points, including the vacuum-operated bypass valves that manage the transition between the small (high-pressure) and large (low-pressure) turbochargers. Thermal management is also more critical in BiTurbo models, as the heat load from two turbochargers can accelerate the aging of surrounding vacuum lines and plastic components.

Common Rail Injection and Fuel Quality

The common-rail injectors in the 2013 Astra operate at extreme pressures (up to 1,800 bar). These injectors are highly susceptible to fuel contamination. High-pressure fuel pump (HPFP) failures are rare but catastrophic, as they can send metal shavings throughout the entire fuel system.

Injectors may exhibit "leak back" issues after 150,000 km, where the internal seals allow fuel to return to the tank rather than being injected into the cylinder. This causes difficulty starting (long cranking), rough idling, and increased smoke emissions. Experts recommend the use of high-quality diesel fuel and periodic fuel filter changes to mitigate these risks.

Chassis, Suspension, and Braking Systems

The Astra J is a substantial vehicle, with 2.0 CDTI hatchback models having a curb weight of approximately 1,503 kg (3,314 lbs), while the Sports Tourer (wagon) weighs in at 1,613 kg. This mass dictates the reliability of the chassis components.

Suspension Architecture and Wear Patterns

To manage the weight and provide refined handling, Opel utilized a MacPherson strut front suspension and a unique rear setup consisting of a torsion beam and a Watt’s link.

• Watt’s Link: This mechanical linkage provides lateral stability for the rear axle, allowing for softer bushings and improved ride quality without sacrificing handling precision. While robust, the center pivot bearing can develop play over time, leading to a "knocking" sound from the rear.

• Front Suspension Wear: The heavy diesel engine places significant load on the front control arm bushings and anti-roll bar links. It is common for these components to require replacement every 80,000 to 100,000 km to maintain steering precision and eliminate "clunking" noises.

• HiPerStrut: Found on GTC and BiTurbo models, the HiPerStrut design reduces torque steer but adds complexity and cost to the front suspension maintenance.

Braking System and Electric Parking Brake (EPB)

The 2.0 CDTI is equipped with 300mm+ vented front discs and 292mm solid rear discs. Due to the vehicle's weight, brake wear is relatively high. Furthermore, the Electric Parking Brake (EPB) system is a known reliability concern. The actuator cables can seize due to corrosion, leading to uneven braking or the failure of the parking brake to release. In some instances, this can cause the rear brakes to overheat, warping the discs and necessitating a full caliper and cable replacement.

Electrical Systems and Interior Ergonomics

The Astra J 2013 interior is noted for its high build quality but also for several persistent electrical and ergonomic complaints.

HVAC and Air Conditioning Compressor

The air conditioning system is a frequent failure point in the Astra J. The A/C compressor is prone to internal seal failure, often occurring between 50,000 km and 80,000 km. Symptoms include a loss of cooling performance and a noticeable metallic noise when the A/C is engaged. Condenser damage from road debris is also common, as the unit is positioned low behind the front grille with minimal protection.

Infotainment and Control Modules

The Astra J utilizes a complex CAN-bus electrical system. While generally stable, some owners have reported "ghost" issues, such as:

1. Power Window Glitches: On certain production lots, improper electronic connections in the power window switches can cause windows to lower automatically when the car is locked and parked.

2. Infotainment Freezing: The Navi 600/900 systems can experience software glitches that require a hard reset or a dealer-led software update.

3. Sensor Errors: Faulty DPF pressure sensors and coolant level sensors often trigger "Check Engine" warnings despite no mechanical fault being present.

Ergonomics and Cabin Feedback

Owner feedback regarding the 2013 interior is mixed. While the material quality is high, the "button-heavy" center console is often criticized for being non-intuitive. The "AGR" (Aktion Gesunder Rücken) certified sport seats, if equipped, are highly praised for long-distance comfort, though the standard seats are often described as "unyielding" or "hard".

Official Recalls and Safety Data

Owners and prospective buyers must ensure that all manufacturer recalls have been performed on a 2013 Astra J.

Recall Number	Year(s)	Concern	Correction
R/2019/063	2010-2014	Hill Start Assist software error; vehicle may roll backward.	Software update to braking module.
R/2014/189	2010-2016	Front passenger seat rails may move without warning.	Replace seat rail fixing bolts.
R/2010/164	2010	Radiator cooling fan may block, causing electrical short/fire risk.	Replace cooling fan module.
N/A (Local)	2013	Airbag chemical propellant degradation; violent deployment risk.	Replace driver/passenger airbag module.

The airbag recall is particularly significant for 2013 models, as the chemical stabilizers in the propellant can degrade over a 10-12 year period, potentially making the airbag unstable in the event of a collision.

Maintenance Schedules and Operational Costs

The 2.0 CDTI requires a more rigorous maintenance schedule than the official GM "Long Life" intervals to ensure long-term reliability.

Standard vs. Recommended Service Intervals

While Opel officially suggested 30,000 km (20,000 mile) or 1-year oil change intervals, engineering analysis and field reports suggest that these intervals are excessive for the diesel powertrain.

Task	Official Interval	Recommended Interval	Reason
Engine Oil & Filter	30,000 km / 1 Year	10,000-15,000 km	Prevent oil dilution and pickup seal aging.
Timing Belt (Cambelt)	150,000 km / 6 Years	100,000 km / 5 Years	Prevent catastrophic valve damage.
Water Pump	With Timing Belt	With Timing Belt	Driven by the belt; failure causes belt snap.
Fuel Filter	60,000 km / 2 Years	30,000 km / 1 Year	Protect high-pressure injectors from sediment.
Coolant Flush	150,000 km / 5 Years	60,000 km / 3 Years	Prevent corrosion of the aluminum head and radiator.

Estimated Repair and Component Costs

The operational cost of the 2.0 CDTI is influenced by its complexity and the labor required for certain repairs.

• Timing Belt & Water Pump Kit: Parts generally cost £150-£250, with labor bringing the total to £400-£550.

• Dual Mass Flywheel & Clutch: A major expense, typically costing £800-£1,100 including labor.

• Oil Pickup Seal: If performed as preventative work, £350-£500. If part of a full engine rebuild following failure, £3,000+.

• DPF Cleaning/Replacement: Professional cleaning is £250-£400. New OEM unit can exceed £1,200.

Comprehensive Reliability Summary

The 2013 Opel Astra 2.0 CDTI is an engineering platform of high mechanical integrity that is burdened by two specific Achilles' heels: the oil pickup seal and the sensitivity of the DPF system to urban driving cycles.

Factors Correlating with High Reliability

The most reliable examples of the 2013 Astra J 2.0 CDTI share the following characteristics:

1. Usage Profile: Predominantly motorway driving ($>40\text{ km}$ per trip) which ensures successful DPF regenerations and minimizes oil dilution.

2. Maintenance History: Oil changes performed at 10,000-15,000 km intervals using Dexos 2 specified 5W-30 synthetic oil.

3. Proactive Intervention: Verification or replacement of the oil pump pickup seal using reinforced aftermarket components.

4. Transmission Care: Manual F40 gearboxes that have had their oil changed (not officially required but recommended) and automatics that have followed a 60,000 km ATF flush schedule.

Conclusion for the Used Buyer

The 2013 Astra 2.0 CDTI is an "expert’s car" in the used market. It is objectively superior to the 1.7 CDTI in terms of performance and gearbox durability. However, its reliability is entirely conditional. For a buyer who commutes long distances and understands the necessity of the oil seal replacement, it is a robust, refined, and economical vehicle. For a buyer intending to use it for short-distance city driving with a "low-cost" maintenance mindset, it represents a significant financial risk due to the potential for DPF clogging and catastrophic lubrication failure.

Reliability data from TUV and DEKRA confirms that the basic chassis and bodywork of the Astra J are class-leading in their resistance to corrosion and structural wear. The vehicle remains a competitive option in the C-segment, provided the owner treats the diesel powertrain’s specific maintenance requirements as non-negotiable engineering mandates.

 

עריכה אחרונה ב-26 בינואר על ידי EliC25

[yulianx]

ידני מתאים? אתה צריך משפחתית או רק רכב קטן גם מתאים?

[avargel]

אני לא צריך כלום (-:

 

זה לגיסי

והוא כבר סגר עם הגיס של אלי

 

מקווה שתהיה לו חוויה טובה, ושהתחזוקה הטובה שהרכב עבר עד כה תשליך על העלויות גם הלאה

[EliC25]

יד שלישית מחברי פורום וגרורותיהם... אשמח להתעדכן בגורל הרכב בהמשך.

 

[PASHUT]

בכמה סגר? כמה הטסט?

האם עבר ניקוי DPF? זה טוב כטיפול מונע (500 ש’’ח באמצעות חומר ייעודי וחיבור למחשב הרכב)

[EliC25]

עבר ניקוי לפני מספר חודשים

טסט ל9 10 חודשים לזכרוני

[PASHUT]

בכל אופן ממליץ לו להציץ על צינורות קולר גיר

אם הם שחוקים (מחלה בדגם גם בבנזין) ומחליפים בזמן זה ישמור על הגיר

המיקום שלהם לא רחוק מהפנס הראשי שמאלי ורואים אותם כשפותחים מכסה מנוע

[davemustaine87]

לפני שעה, EliC25 כתב:

יד שלישית מחברי פורום וגרורותיהם... אשמח להתעדכן בגורל הרכב בהמשך.

 

 

כנ"ל. בזמנו הצעתי את הרכב הזה לחבר שרצה רכב זול עם בגאז' ענק, הוא לא היה מוכן לשמוע על שום דבר שלא יפני או קוריאני, ניראה מי מאיתנו יאכל את הכובע. 

[גולדן191]

לפני 15 דקות, davemustaine87 כתב:

 

כנ"ל. בזמנו הצעתי את הרכב הזה לחבר שרצה רכב זול עם בגאז' ענק, הוא לא היה מוכן לשמוע על שום דבר שלא יפני או קוריאני, ניראה מי מאיתנו יאכל את הכובע. 

הוא טעה

מנוע דיזל יכול להחזיק 400K ק"מ ויותר.. זה לא עניין של יצרן, עניין של מנוע

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